This is\u00a0<\/em>Hot Pod,\u00a0<\/em>The Verge\u2019s newsletter about podcasting and the audio industry. Sign up\u00a0<\/em>here<\/em><\/a>\u00a0for more.<\/em><\/p>\n<\/div>\n It\u2019s only Tuesday, and it\u2019s already been a packed week for podcast news. Shortly before hitting publish on this issue of Hot Pod<\/em>, I got the news that just about every late-night talk show host in America is teaming up with Spotify to launch<\/a> a limited podcast series about the Hollywood strike. The five hosts: Stephen Colbert, Jimmy Fallon, Jimmy Kimmel, Seth Meyers, and John Oliver, have all had their shows on pause since May due to the Writers Guild strike. Strike Force Five<\/em> will launch on Spotify and other platforms on August 30th, and the plan is for the limited series to run for at least 12 episodes.\u00a0<\/p>\n<\/div>\n Notably, the proceeds from the show will go to the late-night series\u2019 staffers, many of whom have been unemployed for a few months now.\u00a0As is now usual with Spotify, Strike Force Five<\/em> won\u2019t be an exclusive podcast \u2014\u00a0it\u2019ll be available on other podcast players. So will a new Spotify Original with Trevor Noah, which is due to be released later this year. The show will be hosted on Spotify\u2019s Megaphone, and Spotify will serve as exclusive sales partner.\u00a0<\/p>\n<\/div>\n The exclusive isn\u2019t dead, though: on Monday, Wondery announced a deal with Dr. Seuss Enterprises to launch a slate of original podcasts featuring IP from the iconic children\u2019s book author. The first podcast, The Cat in the Hat Cast<\/em><\/a>, will launch exclusively on Wondery Plus and Wondery Plus Kids on the Apple Podcasts app. Exclusivity is usually bad for podcasts \u2014\u00a0but parents also tend to be willing to pay for a premium membership in order to access ad-free programming for their children.\u00a0<\/p>\n<\/div>\n The announcement of Strike Force Five<\/em> is unusually good timing, given the Q&A I\u2019m featuring in today\u2019s Hot Pod<\/em>. Read on for my chat with a longtime leader in the comedy podcast space.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n Last week at Podcast Movement, I caught up with Adam Sachs \u2014 the senior vice president of entertainment, comedy, and podcasts programming at SiriusXM. Sachs served as the president of Team Coco up until March of this year, when the satellite radio giant cut 475 jobs as part of a restructuring.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n SiriusXM, which acquired Team Coco in May 2022, now wants to streamline all of its audio programming across entertainment and talk \u2014\u00a0regardless of distribution method. That means podcasts airing on SiriusXM\u2019s satellite radio channels. Team Coco already has its own 24\/7 SiriusXM channel, which it launched<\/a> last November. I spoke to Sachs about what radio can offer podcast creators,\u00a0including former late-night talk show host Conan O\u2019Brien.\u00a0<\/p>\n<\/div>\n This transcript has been lightly edited for clarity and length<\/em>.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n What\u2019s your perspective on taking over the entertainment, comedy, and programming division at SiriusXM? What are your thoughts about the direction of the programming for the rest of the year?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n So I came over from Team Coco when we were acquired<\/a> in May of last year. So it\u2019s almost been a year and a half. For the first 10 months or so, it was very much \u201clet\u2019s keep Team Coco separate and let them operate in their own isolated bubble,\u201d which I think made a lot of sense. SiriusXM was smart to not say, \u201cLet\u2019s integrate everybody immediately.\u201d I think they wanted to maintain some continuity. And also not to have people run out the door after the acquisition \u2014\u00a0and it was successful in that sense.\u00a0<\/p>\n<\/div>\n And then in March of this year, so like six months ago, my role did change. The company went through a full reorganization, really. People from the Team Coco team went and joined the video team at SiriusXM, or our people joined their legal team. It made sense at that point. We had gotten enough time to familiarize ourselves with the organization and the different departments and different personalities and the way the functions work internally.\u00a0<\/p>\n<\/div>\n Since I took over this role in March, there was definitely a learning curve. The role includes podcast programming, which includes Stitcher, Earwolf, 99% Invisible<\/em>, all those brands \u2014 as well as Team Coco. For that stuff, the learning curve was short. Obviously, a lot of those businesses are close to Team Coco. But also, previously, I was the CEO of Midroll Media, which we sold<\/a> to E.W. Scripps, and Midroll Media ultimately<\/a> became a part of Stitcher.\u00a0<\/p>\n<\/div>\n So, in a lot of ways, when I took this job, it was like reuniting with that past \u2014 it was very circular. It involved reuniting with a lot of my old colleagues and a lot of the talent I used to work with. I\u2019m on a panel tomorrow morning [at Podcast Movement] with June Diane Raphael of How Did This Get Made<\/em>. And it\u2019s like, I worked at the show 10 years ago when it was a part of Earwolf. It\u2019s much bigger than it was when I was running it. But it\u2019s familiar and easy to wrap my head around.\u00a0<\/p>\n<\/div>\n Radio is another component to the job. And that\u2019s where the learning curve was \u2014\u00a0it\u2019s really a business model I didn\u2019t know. I got a little bit of an introduction because about six months after the acquisition, we launched Team Coco Radio. So that\u2019s Conan O\u2019Brien\u2019s channel. That was my first introduction to how starting a channel works, how the monetization works, how the costs are allocated, and what some of the roles are like behind a radio channel. I have a really good, pretty senior team that has helped educate me on the radio side provisions.\u00a0<\/p>\n<\/div>\n Can we talk about that transition a little more? We\u2019re seeing kind of the reverse of what happened when public radio started embracing podcasts. What\u2019s the dynamic like now, and what do you envision moving forward?\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n That\u2019s a big part of my mandate, actually, and that\u2019s why SiriusXM is putting podcasts and talk radio on demand \u2014 it\u2019s because there\u2019s a big opportunity to reach a whole new audience. First of all, it\u2019s a pretty disparate audience. There\u2019s not a ton of overlap between the [general US] podcast audience and the SiriusXM radio audience today. It\u2019s a real opportunity to reach incremental audiences if you can find the right content.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n \u201cSiriusXM is like a bunch of little channels that have brands.\u201d<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n SiriusXM is like a bunch of little channels that have brands. And so, for us, we\u2019re looking at this on a case-by-case basis at this point. We launched Kelly Ripa\u2019s podcast, Let\u2019s Talk Off Camera<\/em>. And so that\u2019s a really good fit \u2014 the sensibility fit for radio and Andy Cohen\u2019s radio channel. And so, for us, we thought, let\u2019s take advantage of that. Of course, we had to make sure Andy Cohen agrees since he oversees [Radio Andy<\/a>].\u00a0<\/p>\n<\/div>\n Team Coco is a good case study because we\u2019ve been taking the existing podcasts and putting it on the radio the day that the podcast goes live. So it was like serving two different audiences at the same time with\u00a0essentially the same content.\u00a0<\/p>\n<\/div>\n I think an important thing we\u2019re figuring out when we do a new deal with talent is\u00a0\u201dwhat does a holistic partnership look like?\u201d It\u2019s not gonna look like just signing you to a podcast or signing you to a [radio program]. It might be more like, here\u2019s the podcast component of the partnership, here\u2019s the radio component. Maybe it\u2019s just that we\u2019re rebroadcasting podcasts to radio, but more likely, we\u2019ll figure out something exclusive. Like a bonus episode, or something live, that really lends itself to radio \u2014 that we can add to the deal in the package.\u00a0<\/p>\n<\/div>\n For creators, what can adding a radio component to their podcast achieve?\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n Incremental audience. More direct interaction with fans because the podcast is not live, kind of by definition, right? So the opportunity to do something live and talk to your fans and community directly is something that appeals to a lot of creators \u2014 and has the potential for more revenue.\u00a0<\/p>\n<\/div>\n I\u2019ve noticed many comedians embracing podcasts since the pandemic \u2014\u00a0and especially during the Hollywood strike \u2014 either as guests or doing their own show. For someone like Conan O\u2019Brien, who\u2019s already a big name and very, very proficient with interviewing guests, what\u2019s the appeal of a podcast? What does a podcast offer someone like him versus an emerging star?\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n So, with Conan, and I can speak for him because I\u2019ve heard him say it so many times. I mean, he did spend 20 years perfecting his skills as an interviewer. But one of his big frustrations with [the late-night show] is that he would have someone on that he loves, and he would get like six minutes, and it would get interrupted by a band. The interview would be very superficial and usually be driven by someone coming on to promote something. And he had to fill two or three slots every night. So he wasn\u2019t always getting the number one guests he wanted to get. The podcast allows him to be very choosy about who he talks to and to talk to people in a longform way, which allows him to get deeper with people and not feel rushed to get right to the point. He can flex that interview muscle he\u2019s been building over so many years.\u00a0<\/p>\n<\/div>\n \u201cThe direct connection that listeners get to podcast hosts is very powerful.\u201d<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n And it\u2019s almost a clich\u00e9 at this point \u2014\u00a0but the direct relationship between podcasters and listeners is really strong and really deep. He walks down the street now, and I\u2019ve been there with him, and people will call out catchphrases from the podcast. The TV show was important to people, too \u2014\u00a0I\u2019m not saying that it wasn\u2019t. But the direct connection that listeners get to podcast hosts is very powerful. During the pandemic, we got so many messages from people saying that Conan O\u2019Brien Needs a Friend<\/em> was a respite during the dark times. I don\u2019t think that\u2019s unique to that show. How many times have podcasts provided an escape for people when they were stuck at home or feeling dark? I think that pretty much applies across the board.\u00a0<\/p>\n<\/div>\n You can catch the remainder of my interview with Sachs in Thursday\u2019s Insider edition of Hot Pod<\/em>.\u00a0<\/p>\n<\/div>\n Sure, a \u201cheavy podhead\u201d sounds like something that should star in its own horror movie. But chances are, you probably are one. Roughly a quarter (or 22 percent) of podcast listeners tune in for more than five hours a week, placing them in the \u201cheavy podhead\u201d category, according to a YouGov study<\/a> released this week on podcast consumption. While five hours of podcasts per week may sound like a lot to newbies, it\u2019s less shocking when you keep in mind that many listen to podcasts while<\/a> doing something else \u2014\u00a0whether that be commuting, doing chores, or exercising. If someone\u2019s daily commute is roughly 30 minutes each way, they can easily fit into the \u201cheavy podhead\u201d classification.\u00a0<\/p>\n<\/div>\n Still, YouGov\u2019s results aren\u2019t too shocking: an Edison Research study<\/a> from 2016 actually found an even greater chunk (29 percent) of weekly podcast listeners tune in to five or more hours. While the numbers may fluctuate from year to year, the findings are consistent. Basically, we know there\u2019s a fraction of podcast listeners with lifestyles that allow them to tune in very frequently. But there\u2019s no sign (at least in the data) that \u201cheavy\u201d podcast listening is becoming more widespread every year.\u00a0<\/p>\n<\/div>\n Interesting enough, a \u201cheavy podhead\u201d doesn\u2019t even need to consume that many individual shows \u2014\u00a0being a regular listener of two or three weekly podcasts may be enough.\u00a0 While the length of an average podcast episode is roughly 41 minutes (according to a 2019 analysis<\/a> by Dan Misener), episodes of many chart-topping podcasts run for much longer. The latest episode of The Joe Rogan Experience<\/em> was two hours and 22 minutes (which is on the light side for that show). YouTube podcasts can easily run over an hour. This American Life<\/em> normally puts out hour-long episodes, though many are a little longer. While The Vergecast<\/em> has done shorter episodes, many run well over 75 minutes (a June episode<\/a> that ran for an hour and 38 minutes included a discussion of our Google Pixel Fold review and Microsoft\u2019s legal battle with the FTC).\u00a0<\/p>\n<\/div>\n For some people, five hours is nothing. A writer for The Cut<\/em> estimated<\/a> she listened to 35 hours of podcasts per week, and this was back in 2017. And then there are nonstop podcast listeners<\/a>, which The Washington Post<\/em> profiled this week. Playing podcasts or another type of \u201cbackground media,\u201d such as Netflix, YouTube videos, or a stream on Twitch, can help with focus and concentration, some listeners find. Many also rely on podcasts as a substitute for daily social chatter with friends and co-workers. So, some listeners will start listening to podcasts upon waking up \u2014\u00a0and then just keep playing episodes throughout the day. While it\u2019s unclear how much<\/em> attention these listeners are paying to the podcasts \u2014 they\u2019re likely some of the most loyal fans.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\nSiriusXM\u2019s Adam Sachs on podcasts as a mode of distribution <\/strong><\/h3>\n<\/p>\n
What\u2019s a \u201cheavy\u201d user in the podcast world? <\/strong><\/h3>\n<\/p>\n