This post contains spoilers about the fifth episode of Hacks season four.
In the latest season of Hacks, Jean Smart’s Deborah Vance is warned that her late-night series won’t survive unless it’s a hit by the end of its first year. Head writer Ava Daniels (Hannah Einbinder) wonders if “hits” even exist anymore. Of course, Hacks itself proves they do. Amid a saturated entertainment landscape, Lucia Aniello, Paul W. Downs, and Jen Statsky’s award-winning Max series is an unmitigated succcess—earning Smart three best-actress Emmys and finally capturing best comedy series at the awards last September.
At 73, Smart is aware of the rarified air both she and her series occupy. “I don’t stop realizing and appreciating that I am on a show that I absolutely love, that is so brilliantly written and so smart, with such incredibly cool people—and I’m home every night,” she tells Vanity Fair. “I don’t have to be away from my family, in Atlanta or wherever. Well, I probably wouldn’t have done the job if it had been set or shot in Atlanta.”
Things aren’t going as smoothly for Smart’s character, who learns in this week’s episode of Hacks that she isn’t testing well with women. “I like when she’s funny, but not when she’s trying to be funny,” says one focus group participant. Others complain about her age and her hair. The criticism sends Deborah down a road of desperation, one that involves stealing demo-friendly guests like Kristen Bell out from under an irate Jimmy Kimmel (“Go jam your dick up Fallon’s ass! You fucked with the wrong Jimmy,” he snarls) and welcoming Julianne Nicholson as “Dance Mom,” a popular TikTok creator. “Being canceled is just absolutely not an option,” Smart says of her character’s perhaps ill-fated efforts. “She thinks she’s getting her dream, and she’s just not going to let anything or anybody screw it up.”
Like Deborah, Smart isn’t content to rest on her laurels. Later this month, she’ll return to Broadway for the first time in 25 years with the one-woman show Call Me Izzy, before returning for the presumed final season of Hacks. Ahead of her busy spring, Smart speaks to VF about the show’s “down and dirty” fourth season, one of the most important decisions of her career, and why women are still absent from late-night TV: “Do you have a couple hours?”
Vanity Fair: This season of Hacks airs amid the premiere of your one-woman Broadway show. How are you feeling in the lead-up?
Jean Smart: I am gearing up. I have the first third of the play recorded on my phone, and I fall asleep listening to it every night, because it’s about 75 to 80 pages of material that I need to learn. I have done a couple readings of the play in Los Angeles and New York, so I do have it in my bones a bit already. People say, “How can you possibly memorize that much?” But it’s sort of like when you have a fun anecdote or funny joke—you don’t usually forget any of the details because you can’t wait to tell somebody. So that’s how it feels, because I love this piece so much.
Ava blackmailing Deborah at the end of season three is still looming large over their relationship. But how much does the act that led to the betrayal—Deborah sleeping with Tony Goldwyn’s media CEO, then getting a show on his network—alter Deborah’s confidence?
Well, I think she has a lot of guilt about that. She knows that Ava’s right about certain things, which makes her even more angry, because she doesn’t want to admit that Ava was right. But at the same time she’s thinking, Why doesn’t she understand that this has been my dream my entire adult life? I am moments from getting and enjoying it. Why can’t you understand that I have to make certain decisions? But she knows she’s going to have to make some compromises, which she’s not used to.
Does Deborah have imposter syndrome, or is her personal doubt tied to something else?
I mean, she has a great deal of confidence in her ability. But at the same time, betrayal is the ultimate sin to her. So when she feels that Ava betrays her, all bets are off. I mean, the gloves are off big time—because all that does is bring up all her personal demons and her past, and everything that has driven her and made her the person she is. She thrives on bitterness and resentment.
You and Hannah Einbinder have built such a rich onscreen dynamic together. Was there a moment this season where you most felt that history?
